The 4Cs of Trust Podcast with Gemba Academy

by Jamie Flinchbaugh on 04-10-20

While we could all still travel, I recorded a podcast with Ron Pereira of Gemba Academy. In fact, I was the first in-person guest in their new studio, which was great. Here’s the recording, where we talk about a range of stuff but focus on my recent deep-dive into the 4Cs of Trust and its impact on your lean journey.


GA 314 | The 4Cs of Trust with Jamie Flinchbaugh


  • Hello, Jamie! I haven’t read / listened to all your 4Cs materials, but it is a great topic. I wonder about “competence” – have you looked into the difference between Competence and Capability? In the GA podcast, you talked about the humility to know we aren’t competent yet – that we have a plan to get there. There is a long conversation people can have about people who are smart and intelligent, and then we assume that they can just “figure it out” after reading a book or attending a few hour training session.

    Jack Vinson April 17, 2020 at 8:55 am
  • Jack, great question. To be honest, I often refer to Competence and Capability interchangeably, mostly because as I move from client to client, I have to adopt their language and everyone makes a different choice there. If I had to split hair, competence (especially if you start looking up definitions) is more about doing it well. Capability is more about the potential to achieve it. So it might be the difference between kinetic and potential energy. Competence is the realization of capability. But, like I said, I think that’s splitting hairs on the definition.

    Jamie Flinchbaugh April 17, 2020 at 3:33 pm
  • It’s so easy to get lost in the words, agreed! The concern I have is in the mindset people have about this concept. I’ve worked with organizations which, basically, assume since they have smart people, they are fully able to do the work after attending a single education session. (What’s that quote about smart people + poor processes? 🙂

    Jack Vinson April 20, 2020 at 1:18 pm